Rob is originally from New Jersey and has been doing bands before I even knew what hardcore was. The first band of his I saw was Resurrection @ Middlesex County College. The mixed the newer 90's sound with a ferocious Rollins era Black Flag feel. Not exactly in sound. But Rob was and is brutal on the vocals. I'm not even saying he sounds like Rollins, he doesn't. I'm just saying that dark feel. It just had a darker emotional content and feel which reminded me of Black Flag. Anyway...Rob now fronts 108 which at this point is a legendary hardcore band that returned from the dead but is still creating new records that rival their previous. 108 will be on tour this Spring. I suggest if you have never seen them, do it. If you have, then you already know the deal.
What were some of your earliest musical inspirations and when did you realize you wanted to make music?
As a kid I wasn't all that huge on music until around 1981. Up to that point I heard whatever my Mom played and even though I really love some of what I heard from my mother and am still influenced by it today it really wasn't until 1981 that I got lost in music. The first record that really hit me was The Message by Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. Although my social circumstances were rather different than theirs the sense of desperation and urgency in The Message really hit me hard. By the age on 9 I had already experienced so much fucked up shit in my life from sexual abuse, to the suicide of family members, to finding my Mother after having tried to commit suicide that I had already developed a very deep seeded sense of loneliness and desperation. It wasn't until the late 90's that I could even deal with these things in a direct manner or even understand the magnitude of it all and how heavily it played into my life and who I was but with that said it was my connection with The Message that really gave me access to music as a way to cope with what I was feeling even if just on a general level. From there I really got into hip hop. Then in 1985, when I started high school, I had this kid in my shop class that I knew when I was younger. We were at the same table and didn't recognize one another for a few minutes as we hadn't seen one another in years and I didn't recognize him with his long hair and jacket covered in metal patches. After a bit we recognized one another and for the remainder of the class we talked about music and what we were into. As class was ending he gave me a cassette with Black Flag on it and as soon as I put it on it was over and I was hooked. I, of course, could relate more with punk music because the social setting was much more similar to my own and by that time Hip Hop had really started to shift in terms of lyrical content and I just felt less connected. Looking back prior to 1981 the two artists that really stuck with me were Janis Joplin and The Beatles. My mother LOVED Janis Joplin. My mother had a rough life. She was sexually abused too but also had to drop out of high school to care for her sick Mother and had a disease which, at least at the time, was both hard to diagnose and little was known about it. All of her physical struggles were chalked up to "mental issues" which simply exaggerated the mental problems she was already dealing with. I remember her singing along to Janis Joplin and there is a really heartfelt pain in that music which stuck with me. Of course The Beatles are more known for their early pop songs than anything else but they also had this deeper emotional aspect top them that I connected with. To this day Eleanor Rigby is one of my favorite songs. As far as when I wanted to make music that wasn't until 1988 because I had little talent and I certainly wasn't able to express even a small glimpse into what I had gone through or was going through so doing a band never occurred to me. Somehow Release started and I was the singer.
I didn't write much of the Release lyrics until the later songs that were on the last two ep's but regardless the emotional release in doing a band, even if the lyrics were rather generic and stupid, was important to me and helped me have an outlet for all of the pent up feelings and emotions. I know that most of it came out awkwardly and even embarrassingly to me today but it was still a healthy and important step for me.
You've been in a long list of bands over the years. Can you give us a run down of the all the bands and projects you have been a part of?
I was in Release from 1988 – 1990, Ressurection from 1991 to 1994, 108 from 1993 to 1996 and then The Judas Factor from 1998 to 2000. After that I laid low musically until 108 reformed and started recording and touring in 2005.
As someone who personally lived through some hard times and depression I always was attracted to your lyrical content. It seemed to deal with the darker side of emotion many times. If you would like tell us a bit about your own struggles with depression, darker emotions and other painful situations you may have dealt with.
Well even at a very early age I always felt very disconnected from my surroundings. I have likened it to living life like you are in a movie in that I was there, witnessing everything going on around me but felt as if I had no say in what the next scene was or what was happening tome. I felt helpless, alone and sad. When I was between the ages of 7-9 I was sexually abused which took those same feelings and dramatically increased them. I started to act out heavily because I was so angry, scared and confused and had no way to even mentally or emotionally process it all. I guess when I tried to burn down my elementary school in the fifth grade or coming home with huge lacerations on my hands from smashing windows with my hands someone should have realized I wasn't just being "a boy" but a lot was going on with my family and I think, like me, there was a general sense of denial and emotional inability to deal with everything going on. I started to have thoughts of my own suicide when the sexual abuse started because now I really felt unable to control anything and my loneliness was magnified. I never went very far with those thoughts until the early 90's because in the beginning just the thought of it, visualizing just how I would do it and what I might feel, was enough. On the outside I don't think any of my friends knew what was going on. Of course they saw my rather extreme and often erratic and unprovoked behaviors and for a long time, until the last year, I really resented them for never just pulling me aside and asking me what was wrong or doing anything to intervene. When 108 was recording our last record I wrote a song about my feelings in that regard called My Redemption Song, which was influenced by the Bob Marley song Redemption Song. It was my way to just express how hurt I was. I felt like my outbursts and erratic behavior was a form on entertainment for them. However I have come to realize over the last year that just as I was a kid unequipped to deal with the shit I was going through they too were kids dealing with their own lives and were anything but equipped to deal with anyone else's personal issues.
My Redemption Song – this is my redemption song and I've laid it out for all to see because there is no way that you can think less about me than I haven't thought about myself. This is a new day for me where I write my own story. The past is far away and it will stay that way. – this is my redemption song and I've laid it out for all to see because there is no way that you can think less about me than I haven't thought about myself. I'm gonna burn this part of me in effigy and if you're not careful I'll take you with me. Conflicted and flawed, Awkward and fucked up and you never said a word. Just watched as I implode and I can only hope it was as entertaining to you as it was painful for me. (108, A new beat from a dead heart lp, 2007)
As I said earlier lyrically it was all slow to come out as not only had I not even been able to process any of what I experienced intellectually or emotionally but I certainly had no confidence to express the little I could understand or come to terms with. I think the first song where I could express anything was one of Release's last songs called Calm before the Storm. In Ressurection I at least was able to start expressing the anger I was feeling. Fuck your Sympathy was my way to address my mothers death and I continued to at last be able to express the anger I was feeling. During my initial time with 108 I wrote very little even though I was going through hell. I would contribute ideas here and there but not whole songs until I wrote Curse of Instinct which was really important for me. It was the first time I could even express the emotional side of myself and it was a defining aspect of why I was in 108.
Curse of Instinct - Curse of instinct never knowing peace even pain is welcome when you cannot feel a thing and it only gets harder to put together the pieces that just don't fit; they just won't fit. And it only gets lonelier when you're stuck outside. Caught in that void; drown in denial and it only gets harder to fit together the pieces; it only gets lonelier when you're stuck outside. You can't fit together the pieces and you're ripped apart by the void. The emptiness in you… the emptiness in you. And I won't lie anymore; I won't hide it anymore. The emptiness, the void, the void in my heart, the you. Can you feel it? Can you feel the emptiness in you? The emptiness, the void, in you. (108, Curse of Instinct ep, 1996)
Things had really escalated in terms of the depth of my emotional issues and depression during that initial time with 108 . In 1995, in between US and European tours, is when my thoughts on suicide and my desperation came to a head. It wasn't rare during that period that I would be incapacitated for days by crushing headaches and I could do nothing but lay in a dark room and the feelings of torment were overwhelming. This time I was in pain for days until one morning I woke up feeling different. The headache was gone and I felt focused and determined to end my life. The thing was it wasn't an emotional feeling this time as I felt so calm. I woke up, got dressed and walked to Washington Square Park which was just a few minutes from where I lived. I still remember the walk. It was a beautiful day, sunny, warm and a light breeze. I swear I even heard birds singing in downtown Manhattan. I stopped at an ATM and took out the little money I made on tour and kept on to the park. When I got there I was, of course, approached by one of the many drug dealers. I told him I wanted a gun. He told me $400 which is all I had and I gave it to him. He told me to come back in an hour. I walked around the park and felt so calm and in control. An hour later I was walking back to my apartment with a small handgun. There was aspiring in my step and it was like my senses were all heightened. The beautiful summer day, the sounds and smells I encountered all felt good. I went into my apartment, wrote a short note apologizing to my father, my few friends and my wife and then sta on my bed. I took out the gun, put it in my mouth and the overwhelming sense of control, the control I had yearned for my entire life, was now in my hands and it was the most amazing and liberating feeling in the world. With that newfound sense of control I just realized I didn't need to die. I needed control. So I took the gun out of my mouth and put it in the bag I g ot it in, along with my note, walked downstairs and down to Avenue D and threw it in a dumpster. I struggled heavily with my depression for many more years to come but now, in the least, I knew I could have control and all I wanted was to find my way to having control over my life. It was at this time that I started to let go of all of the things that I had allowed to define or distract me from what I was struggling with which included the way I approached my spirituality, my relationships and everything else.
One Fine Day – One fine day, gun in hand, purpose, clear intentions. Passion in my heart, fire in my veins, no more insecurities, no more self loathing, this is control. All I wanted was control, a sense of control. Now it's in my hands, the ultimate control. Never meant to be, it never should be but for one fine moment I felt control. (The Judas Factor, Kiss Suicide ep, 1999)
The Judas Factor started as an idea where we would practice a few times, record an ep and that was that. Up to that point it went so fast and I found myself disappointed that I hadn't continued with what I discovered when I wrote Curse of Instinct which was to invest myself and what I was feeling in my music and not self censoring myself. So with that I decided I wanted The Judas Factor to be a real band but needed it to be a situation where I felt absolutely comfortable expressing whatever it was I needed to express. Once that happened the songs really started to flow and I wrote a record, Ballads in Blue China, which is absolutely the most intense and emotionally expressive record I have ever written in that it was a record about me whereas most bands, lyrically, you have to represent the viewpoint of the collective unit. So with this record I was finally able to talk about the sexual abuse I suffered, my feelings of isolation and depression and I feel that the record perfectly expressed everything I was feeling and going through at the time.
Beauty Mark - I can see myself, vulnerable, innocent, just what you were looking for. You set the stage for what is my life and I've played it back a million times. Oh, how I tried to purge this from my mind but it's always tearing at me and I can't help but wonder if you ever think about me because I can't get you out of my mind. You're faceless, heartless to me. Was I the only one? You are the rotting teeth in my mouth and everyday you're there to remind me. You symbolize my pain, you're that gun in my mouth but no bullet can make this go away. I only wish I could share this with you. Do you have a son? Is he beautiful? Innocent? Did you share with him what you shared with me? You're my beauty mark. (The Judas Factor, Ballads in Blue China, 1998)
It was absolutely liberating. Once that record was released and some more songs were written for what was to be our second LP I found that, for me, the band had served its purpose and I didn't know if I could continue to do it emotionally. So with that we hastily recorded an ep, which I really like the songs themselves but the performance is rather poor because we weren't in a good place as a group, and with that it ended. At that point I was just mired in regret and although in some respects regret is a good thing but the thing is you can't change the past so being steeped in it was becoming very counterproductive. The expression that was at first liberating to me was now becoming suffocating.
Chose your poison -There's a stranger in my head who wants a hand in my death. There's this weight on my chest stealing away my breath. There's a mask on my face that only our 'love' could replace. These hands around my neck are teaching me about regret. Your silence speaks volumes, so there's no need, to line up with your grievances. Actions mean nothing, regrets powerless, cause we still can't escape our past. I want to know what it's like to feel so secure, about the promises we make, and those we break. We always swore we'd be better then this. Choose your poison. The thoughts we had, fuck good intentions, they painted us into this corner. Blank stares, lifeless minds, cutting words, the killing kind. (The Judas Factor, Ballads in Blue China, 1998)
After The Judas Factor ended I moved to California and then in 2005 108 happened to get together for a show and the energy and relationships blossomed which led to us continuing with the band, releasing a new LP and touring around the world. For me the new LP was important as there were some things about 108, and mainly what people perceived as it's purpose, that I wanted to address which I think we did right of the bat with the first two songs of the new LP. The first song, Declarations on a Grave, get's right to the point of balancing intellect with the reality that we cannot intellectually understand all that surrounds us. This doesn't equate to God, God's or the lack thereof rather the infinite possibilities and being open to them.
Declarations on a Grave – We got the gift to over enunciate poetic declarations on a grave. Our policies to protect us just serve to suffocate us with a constant need to validate all we feel. Intellectual limits bring death to emotion when we don't take the risk to experience th edancing lights, flickering in our minds, that remind us we're alive. (108, A new beat from a dead heart lp, 2007)
The second song, Guilt, speaks to the unfortunate realities of how spiritual theologies or practices become warped and even counter productive to their very point, when they become a tool to control or judge others.
Guilt – Empires built on doctrinal guilt, controlling man with what we can't understand. Words, body and mind enslaved at a shrine with little left except for pending death. Guilt, guilty for being alive. Written word designate death when desires define degrees of helplessness. When birth and gender assign entitlement while feelings and emotions are left for death. Guilt, guilty for being alive. This is our sickness, no one to blame, when "sinful" minds handicap our existence. So much for being free, so much for being me. (108, A new beat from a dead heart lp, 2007)
I guess when you look from band to band there is an evolution in terms of how I came to grip with who I am and how openly I could express it. One thing si for certain and that is I wouldn't be alive if it weren't for music and the opportunity I have had to express myself with it.
Did these early struggles and "slaps of reality" turn you toward your spiritual search?
Yes, it certainly did. I can probably best be described as an intellectual agnostic and an emotional theist. What I mean by that is it has never been about truth or right verse wrong for me and to be perfectly honest the whole question of does God exist means little or nothing to me. It is essentially irrelevant tome personally. Spirituality, to me, is about inspiration, experiences and aspiration and it holds no weight in how I view the responsibilities of the rest of the world. I like reading the lila of Radha and Krishna and I am attracted to meditating and aspiring to the idea that one can be Radha's manjari and facilitate her relationship with Krishna. It is about what brings me inspiration and happiness and that is about it. When I first started reading books from the Krishna movement I was drawn to it by the tenants of karma. I needed something, anything, to help me answer why I experienced so much horrible shit. It was an emotional escape and I absolutely needed it in order to survive. It served its purpose well. I was never the type of person who thought my spiritual musings should be used to govern another. I never equated being a vegetarian and finding comfort with the idea of karma with some social cause like being pro life. I never equated spirituality as a way to decide who another person should love or marry. I just never got to that point of no return when it came to spirituality. It is, for me, about me and what inspires me.
On the spiritual path growth is a huge factor. If you stop growing or become stagnant it is somewhat like death. Where do you think you are at now on your personal journey as compared to when you first began?
I mean I am essentially the same person. By the end of 108 I stopped seeing how being tied to some religious institution even loosely was helpful and by 1998 I had left behind those trappings. Where am I at now? Who knows. I am who I am and I will embrace that which brings me hope and happiness and leave everyone else to debate right verse wrong and all of that other stuff. I am happy and this is about the first time in my life I can truly say that.
108 in the begining was a pretty straight forward in your face Krsna Conscious band. How is it different now that everyone has been through their own personal transformations?
Well during the first run of 108 we were very differently people, especially Vic and I, and had a hard time relating emotionally and personally but we had some similar thoughts and inspirations and we made those the center of the band and went at them ferociously. At this point we are all much closer emotionally and personally and 108 continues to be a vehicle for us to put forth our similar thoughts and inspirations. To be honest the biggest difference is that there is now 3 equal voices in the song writing process and the lyrics. Up to Curse of Instinct Vic write all but a few words of every 108 lyric whereas now I write the majority of the songs while Vic has written a few and Triv has also contributed some amazing lyrics. Musically we all write and jell together well.
Alan Cage recently joined the band and you guys did a tour in South America. How has the new addition been for the band?
Playing with Alan in South America was great. He is a great drummer, one of my favorites from the hardcore scene, and we all got on well and had an awesome time. At the same time we all learned long ago that 108 will probably never be a band with a drummer and the best way for us to exist is to have friends play drums for us when schedules allow. So we may work together more with Alan in the future if the stars align otherwise we will play with some other friends.
From what I understand you guys live in different locations through out the U.S. How does this translate into the writing process for the band?
Yeah, well I live out in Oakland and most likely will move to Portland in the next year while Triv is in Boston. Vic is currently in San Diego but he plans to move with his family to Japan in early 2009. I guess being a band spread all over the US was too simple for us so this will present a new challenge but realistically it won't change much. Between work, families and conflicting schedules we essentially get together once a year to write and practice for 3-4 days and then go on tour. We all write and will send ideas back and forth and when we are together we play with it all and just hit record and play and see what comes out.
108 is releasing some new music soon, What info can you give us on the new music. What direction is the music heading in?
We plan to get together in February to at least record a new ep. As far as to what you can expect who knows.
You are lining up a U.S. tour for Spring. Do you have any solid dates and locations on that tour yet??? Any plans for a possible Euro tour or anywhere else?
We are finishing up booking a 15 date US Tour in April. We have 16 days to hit as many places as possible so we have lined up some great shows and bands for shows on both coasts as well as a bunch of cities that we haven't been to in 13 plus years which is awesome. I am really excited about some of the bands we are doing stints of the tour with but Andy at Deathwish Inc. is making me stay quite on who it all is until we announce the tour! We will hit Europe for 12 quick shows this summer and plan to head to Japan with our new record next fall and will try to make a show or two happen in India because it would be so bizarre. We plan to stay as active as we have been which is a few 2 week tours spread throughout the year.
What are your feelings on the current political climate in the United States and some of the issues we are facing with?
That is a hard subject to be so general about but essentially I am a strong believer in keeping God out of Government and in that sense the US scares me as I believe that those lines and the separation of church and state in thinning constantly which scares me. I was very disappointed to see Prop 8 passed in California and still see so much of our country ignoring the rights of its own citizens. I am honestly sick of hearing about the "sanctity" of marriage. What is this sanctity and where does it exist except in their heads? Certainly the divorce rate and the amount of emotional and physical abuse that is rampant in marriages doesn't speak to this sanctity. I was happy to see Obama win because at least he will not place individuals into the Supreme Court who blur the lines between God and Government when those seats become open. Of course he isn't my ideal candidate but he was the best that was being offered up who had a shot at winning. Still I think he can do next to nothing and his being elected is still so important to the direction of this country because now a huge percentage of our population who don't fit into the white and Christian demographics now have a real example to hopefully inspire them to take up being not just politically active but hopefully inspired to dedicate their lives, to whatever extent they are so inspired, to help bring about real freedom and equality and know that if they aspire to be the next President they will not be limited by birth and gender.
Do you think spirituality plays a part in correcting some of the problems that we now face?
I don't know. I think being an honest, loving and caring person is the most important thing. If "spirituality" gives one license to discriminate than absolutely not. If it is a way to tap into ones own sense of compassion than great. Spirituality is what you make of it. I had one morning where I woke up inspired and just wrote out this long and rambling, which became a song called The Sad Truth, that is a take on what defines my own Carpe Diem which I guess I would think would correct such problems. I guess everyone has an opinion. I dream of a world where flags are nothing but cloth and the only thing that matters is love, life and freedom. Where the bottom line doesn't determine life and we aren't defined by income bracket, a pretty house, faith, a lack thereof or a fucking degree. Where we think before we act and act before we critique. Where we think about who is next and make it cleaner than how we found it. Where we mean what we say and only say what we mean and where ideals are meant to better ourselves and where we aren't afraid to say I can't. Where sorry is a liberating word and thank you comes from the heart. Where we don't just watch but we decide to act. Where we refuse to live only until its time to die. Where we refuse to live only until its time to die.
Where feelings and desires mean more than quotas, expectations and disappointed stares. Where we have a right to hurt, scream, cry, live, die and sit in silence just because we fucking can. I dream of a world where I can love you in spite of what keeps us apart and where second best is as good as first or a millionth.
Where we don't over analyze every breathe or under appreciate what our words mean to another. Where we find comfort in silence and a place of peace in all of the noise and where everything that is thrown at us makes us better, stronger and more appreciative. Where we celebrate life, death and all that comes in between. Where songs sing to us and a loved ones words make us dance. Where what we see in a mirror is a happy, satisfied and fulfilled individual and where we feel bad about how we look at others and not just because of how others look at us.
I dream of a world where I can love you, where I can feel you and where I can know you without having to own you, without having to hate you or without having to fuck you. A world where I can love you, where I can feel you, where I can know you without having to own you, without having to hate you, without having to fuck you, fuck you in more ways than one.
I dream of a world where a smile isn't a rare gift and where sadness isn't a curse and where the two together make life worth living. Where we aren't forced to validate every feeling we encounter and where such feelings bring a new beat from a dead heart. Where our world is shaped by feeling and not by another's expectations. where media doesn't define friend or foe and doesn't tell me how to look, how to feel, how to act and how to live. Where a flower, a smile, a thought, a touch, a smell makes it all worth it and where the hardest words are nothing but poetry that spills from our mouth.
Any last words or wisdom for the youth out there?
Be compassionate to yourself and the world around you. Don't wait for change and don't allow the weight of others expectations weigh you down. Live.
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